|
| IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting. |
National League Shake Up on the Way? |
Post Reply 
|
Page 12> |
| Author | |
Bill Sley 
World Cup Winner 
Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: National League Shake Up on the Way?Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 14:18 |
|
The article is behind a paywall............anyone know if it's worth reading? |
|
 |
|
|
Bill Sley
World Cup Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 14:19 |
|
Ooops..........thought I'd posted an image of the article on The Rugby Paper.....titled as above
|
|
|
|
|
Allan Foster
World Cup Winner
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Location: Lytham St Annes Status: Offline Points: 3491 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 15:25 |
|
Ultra brief summary:
* The crucial decision concerns the structure of the Championship upon which so much else below hangs * There's a 'think tank' with a wide range of members (including the Championship's Steve Lloyd and NLR's John Inverdale) chaired by the RFU's Connor O'Shea looking at the options * 14 team leagues at levels 3 & 4 remain an objective but the make-up and arrangements for these will depend on the decision on the Championship. * might be mid 2021-22 season before all this is clarified So not a lot to report really then ...
|
|
|
An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
|
|
|
|
|
Halliford
World Cup Winner
Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4309 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 19:01 |
|
Absolutely no news there then! John Inverdale has asked that anyone who has views on how the Championship should be structured should let him know.
|
|
|
|
|
workerbee
World Cup Winner
Joined: 20 May 2009 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 948 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 13:51 |
|
As the rugby papers said the has been a committee set up to consider all the options as a "matter of urgency" and will meet up over the next 4 months- The Next 4 Months!!! What have they got to talk about? It has been discussed at length on the Rolling Maul and various News papers, a paper on the options was brought out over 15 months ago on the options for the Championship. It has been known for 12 months that the premiership will be going to 14 teams and after 2-3 years it is proposed that the top of the Championship with play the bottom of the premiership for the last place. It is already known that the championship will go down to 10 teams at the end of Next season so the minimum number of teams needed to be promoted will be 2. So what are the options:
I know finance comes into the equation but as the RFU are determined to keep cutting the payments to Championship clubs, on the basis they are the top tier of the community game, then there will be no match income unless their is a bigger league and more home games. I am not sure what other options are available. Surely it cannot be beyond the capability of the Championship to have a meeting one weekend of all 11 clubs and get a resolution within a week This has taken more time then to elect the Pope!! It should have been done months ago. Not leaving all leagues below Championship not knowing what they are playing for when starting the coming season |
|
|
|
|
Camquin
World Cup Winner
Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Online Points: 12032 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 14:23 |
|
Workerbee, why not a straightforward 16-team league? 30 games. 15 at home, 15 away. If you want to give the players more time between games, you can extend the season into May - as Championship players are currently not playing in the County Championship. But even so, it is only four options - plus possibly a discussion on ground criteria. The question for the clubs is, how much do we make from a home game, and is four extra home games worth another 25% cut in RFU funds. You ought to poll the national 1 clubs to see how many would want to be promoted, though frankly if the Championship sides do not get more central funding, the standard and travel will not be that much higher than National 1. |
|
|
Sweeney Delenda Est
|
|
|
|
|
workerbee
World Cup Winner
Joined: 20 May 2009 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 948 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 15:23 |
|
agree with your 4th Option , so why is it such a problem to decide between each option. If you did some preparation i.e. sending them to the all Championship clubs for a club discussion for say 14 days , then a Championship club meeting to make a decision it could have been sorted months ago , everyone knew it would have to be done. As to money what promises have the RFU made to the championship clubs about reversing the cuts "Nothing" are they going to cut further very possible. So where is the money coming from , unless internally generated through more home games, Hospitality, Non rugby related Events, or a Big Sponsor - Remember the definition of Sponsorship is for the business to prove he is benefiting from the money he is investing for it to be tax deductible otherwise it is a straight donation.
I believe that Championship clubs, unless then get a gold plated guarantee that funds will come back from the RFU , will have to built their model on internal funds going forward and their squads will have to reflect this , thus cementing the gap between Championship and Premiership and perpetuating the drawbridge being pulled up.
Edited by workerbee - 24 Aug 2021 at 15:24 |
|
|
|
|
PiffPaff
World Cup Winner
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 1126 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 20:50 |
|
I notice said article mentions the lack of Ed Griffiths being part of the "Think Tank", wasn't Mr Griffiths being pushed on here by some as the "Man with the plan". Seems like he would have been involved if his plan was a sound as originally made out.
|
|
|
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
|
|
|
|
|
workerbee
World Cup Winner
Joined: 20 May 2009 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 948 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 08:55 |
|
I do not care whose plan is accepted only that it had been considered together with all the other options 12 months ago . How difficult is it to make a decision on the limited number of options. as the old saying goes "how many electricians do you need to fit a bulb? one to fit it and 11 to decide how"
|
|
|
|
|
Halliford
World Cup Winner
Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4309 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 22:24 |
|
I think you will find there is no consensus among Championshop Clubs and Steve Lloyd has not led the process well - hence the working group!
|
|
|
|
|
workerbee
World Cup Winner
Joined: 20 May 2009 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 948 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 13:21 |
|
So there you have it no one can agree on anything, when logic says there are only 4 options and a decision needs to be taken, just kick it down the road with the usual delaying tactic "a working group" which will simply come back with options for the 11/10 championship clubs to decide on. Clubs cannot survive on 10 home games and a Reduced RFU payment.
The sad thing is it is bad enough that 11 clubs cannot agree if it only affected them but the whole of the RFU pyramid is waiting , some less then others and some opting out altogether. The one thing we can agree on is weak leadership, maybe a "Benign dictatorship " is a good option after all at least decisions can be made quickly.
|
|
|
|
|
Scrumtime
World Cup Winner
Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 905 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 15:28 |
|
The whole lot is very easy : For the life of me I cannot see what the issue is: Maybe the RFU needs to pay a few hundred grand to have somebody sort it. I really cannot see what or why with all the rugby brains on it nobody has come up with the answer Halliford as Mr Inverdales PR dept I’m sure you can pass it on 1/ Winner from Champ to Prem end of 21/22 .. Nobody down (Prem now 14 sides 22/23) 2/ Champ now 10 sides - Top 2 up from National 1 end of 21/22 season (Champ now 12 sides for 22/23) 3/ Nat 1 now 14 sides - Bottom 3 down - Winner of Nat 2 North and South up, play off winner up (Now 14 sides 22/23 season ) 4) 3 x National 2 leagues of 14 : End of 22/23 season when there is still no relegation from Prem Top 2 of National 1 up to Champ to make that 14 teams as well, leaving National 1 with 12 sides Winner of all 3 National 2 leagues up making 15, bottom side only of National 1 down, giving you 14. Meaning Prem, Champ, Nat 1 and all 3 National 2 leagues now have 14. Doing it this way you do not dilute the strength of all top 4 leagues. You have sides going up that have proved they have strength in finishing in the top two of National 1 or win National 2. You then go to bottom of Prem plays off home and away v top of Champ each season, for the Prem spot Bottom of Champ does the same against National 1 for the Champ spot, meaning the better side, take the league place. End of 22/23 bottom 3 of National 1 down only the winners of each National 2 league go up . Pretty easy really!! Edited by Scrumtime - 26 Aug 2021 at 15:36 |
|
|
|
|
Camquin
World Cup Winner
Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Online Points: 12032 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 16:10 |
|
I do not believe the Championship can go 3 seasons without relegation - as teams will simply not bother recruiting, knowing they are safe. Just as Richmond did last season. I would certainly be trying to pursue a cross border competition - it would need sponsorship and a TV deal but 10 English clubs, plus 12 Welsh, 6 Scottish and 4 Irish regional "A" sides to make eight pools of 4. You could add the D2 and Italian Top 10 but that might mean slimming down the French league to make space.
|
|
|
Sweeney Delenda Est
|
|
|
|
|
Scrumtime
World Cup Winner
Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 905 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 17:11 |
All on £165k from the RFU a season.... whilst the Prem suck up all CVC money
|
|
|
|
|
Rabbie Burns
World Cup Winner
Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3418 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 17:14 |
|
Can someone explain why cash is the issue for the Championship, very few are fully pro probably only Ealing. I don’t think Champ clubs do more travel than Nat 1, champ clubs don’t pay for video equipment, filming or ref links, grounds are no better than most Nat 1 grounds so what justifies the cash. I don’t think the premiership should get as much as they get either. IMO if you cannot live within your means you shouldn’t be there
Edited by Rabbie Burns - 26 Aug 2021 at 17:16 |
|
|
So many Christians not enough Lions
|
|
|
|
|
Member728
World Cup Winner
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Location: RAG Status: Offline Points: 2727 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 17:34 |
simply not true the reason we finished bottom is we simply did not play well enough in quite a few games even if we follow your logic for this season ,as there is no relegation, why have we recruited a lot this year?
|
|
|
|
|
PiffPaff
World Cup Winner
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 1126 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 18:02 |
|
I think 728 cq missed a word out............ will simply not bother recruiting quality
For the sake of argument lets say a Club in the Championship have a £350K paying budget. You know you won't get relegated so spend £200K on an below average squad. You rinse and repeat for 3 years safe in the knowledge that by year 4, you've got a £250K + £450K to spend on a run for the top or a trip to Las Vegas. Edited by PiffPaff - 26 Aug 2021 at 18:03 |
|
|
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
|
|
|
|
|
Thatbloke
World Cup Winner
Joined: 02 Sep 2017 Location: Newport Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 18:16 |
|
But that money has to come from somewhere - fine if you can fund it from match day income etc but would sponsors continue to pump money in to support 3 years of mediocrity (maybe worse!)??
|
|
|
|
|
PiffPaff
World Cup Winner
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 1126 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 18:59 |
|
Yep a very good point and why having this fundamental rule of promotion and relegation is indicative of the way Club sport in this country has always operated. Now we seem to be lurching slowly toward the American way (closed shop). I'm always amazed the amount of sponsorship (in the past) Champ and Nat League clubs managed to garner I think it will be harder to come by over the next 3 years but don't be surprised if some clubs still get oodles of cash from Sponsors who frankly do it to big themselves up as opposed to it being a viable business relationship.
|
|
|
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
|
|
|
|
|
dropout22
World Cup Winner
Joined: 03 Jul 2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 526 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 22:18 |
Fully-Pro sides there's 5. Ealing,Pirates,Donny,Jersey,Coventry - there's also a number of pros at the other clubs. Even if these side's aren't full-time, a number of full-time staff come with the club. You have a set-up that in 2020 saw some clubs earn as much as 700k, to now in the space of 12 months go down to 161k + covid that's going to financially hit any business. 2,000,000 active players in this country and we can't run 2 full/time leagues.... something at the top is seriously wrong. Even the smallest thing in sport at any elite level is expensive - constant medical suppliers/insurance/wages etc etc
Edited by dropout22 - 26 Aug 2021 at 22:19 |
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Camquin wrote: