Shot clock proposal
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Topic: Shot clock proposal
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Subject: Shot clock proposal
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 13:16
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63782112" rel="nofollow - 'Shot clock' may be introduced to help speed up game
A countdown 'shot clock' on scrums, line-outs and kicks at goal could be introduced to help speed up the game before the Rugby World Cup.
The sport's key stakeholders met last week to consider ways to improve the flow of international rugby.
Other ideas include enhancing the in-stadium fan experience by broadcasting interactions between the referee and television match official [TMO].
The proposals will be considered by World Rugby over the coming weeks. |
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Replies:
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 14:29
There already is a clock on kicks, the referees just need the balls to call it.
The referee can already penalize for time wasting. The problem with line-outs and scrums is it is often not clear who is holding play up, And at a scrum, safety comes first.
But if a prop fails to bind, or binds with the elbow down, blow immediately before the ball goes in.
If a prop is penalized three times, card them.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 14:36
In the case of 'shot clocks' we don't need yet more technology just referees to tell the players to get on with it and then to actually penalise those who don't. It really isn't that difficult and it could start immediately.
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Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 15:01
Absolutely . . Eng V SA such a dull watch . . .but it could mean we have tv commercials every time a scrum is set!!!!!
------------- Run with it
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Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 16:00
Not related to time wasting, but, how about putting the ball straight in to scrums? Old fashioned I know, but it is the law and very easy to referee
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Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 16:27
Or at Twickenham get Erica Roe to run on while scrum resets. 😁
------------- Cauliflower ear.
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Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 16:36
Not convinced that she would be very rapid these days, what with the natural movement of her attributes in a southerly direction....
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 17:41
One For The Ditch wrote:
Not convinced that she would be very rapid these days, what with the natural movement of her attributes in a southerly direction.... |
They weren't exactly northerly way back then.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 20:50
Instead of giving the kicker 90 seconds, or whatever, to take the kick, why not just stop the clock until the ball is struck. Penalties or conversions. From hand let it run, but play should re-start as soon as possible.
------------- Tackle Low!!!!!
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 10:56
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/australia-claim-world-rugby-admit-25079974" rel="nofollow - The only true beneficiaries of a 'Shot Clock' would be Australians.
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 11:20
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/australia-claim-world-rugby-admit-25079974" rel="nofollow - The only true beneficiaries of a 'Shot Clock' would be Australians. |
Why?
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 14:00
OldNick wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/australia-claim-world-rugby-admit-25079974" rel="nofollow - The only true beneficiaries of a 'Shot Clock' would be Australians. |
Why? |
From around 16:50 - Australia leading by 3 points win a penalty in the shadow of the posts, Foley delays taking the penalty kick (despite being urged to take the kick by some of his team) and Raynal awards a scrum to New Zealand.
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 07:37
But the clock wouldn't apply in that instance because Foley isn't kicking for goal.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 10:18
Brizzer wrote:
Instead of giving the kicker 90 seconds, or whatever, to take the kick, why not just stop the clock until the ball is struck. Penalties or conversions. From hand let it run, but play should re-start as soon as possible. |
This is a much better proposal for kicks at goal. No pressure on the kicker for time constraints. As for scrums, i'd say that it should just be the refs being more proactive at awarding free kicks for timewasting or alter the laws to allow the ref to award a penalty for blatant timewasting.
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Posted By: IonMan
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 12:05
Can you imagine how long the games will take if all this comes in! Already nearly 2 hours for premiership matches. Any club without floodlights would need to kick off in the morning to finish before it was dark. Also with all the waiting will need to treat a few for frost bite!
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Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 12:50
IonMan wrote:
Can you imagine how long the games will take if all this comes in! Already nearly 2 hours for premiership matches. Any club without floodlights would need to kick off in the morning to finish before it was dark. Also with all the waiting will need to treat a few for frost bite! | Spot on mate the last thing we want is shot clocks we just need stronger match officials who warn time wasters at all stages of play and then penalise timewasters ruthlessly.
------------- Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 17:19
How will shot-clocks for kicks make games last longer? Surely the aim is to ensure that the ball is in play more than at present. 60 seconds seems reasonable, including a 10-second warning from 'Sir', and if you haven't struck the ball when time's up, the kick is automatically deemed to have missed, with the game-clock running throughout.
I'm less convinced by how 'scrum-clocks' would work. Stopping the clock for endless re-sets is perhaps better than a scrum using up 5 mins of playing time, but neither situation is very satisfactory. Maybe free-kicks awarded for delays etc at scrums should not include the right to opt for another scrum - you have to either tap & run, or kick?
Lineouts - not a massive problem IMHO, altho' the team meeting b4 each lineout can be irritating. Set period (20 secs, perhaps 30) for team to throw in after ball goes into touch - fail to do that, throw goes to other side.
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 17:23
Surely the answer to this is tougher refereeing and applying the laws, including straight scrum put in and hookers feet outside the field of play at throw ins..
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 17:33
At least half the things they try to fix already have solutions in the law book.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 18:05
FHLH wrote:
Surely the answer to this is tougher refereeing and applying the laws, including straight scrum put in and hookers feet outside the field of play at throw ins.. |
Scrum put-ins = agree. Altho' have almost given up hope...
Hooker's feet outside the field of play at throw-ins - surely not even in the top 100 problems relating to rugby union and the laws of the game?
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2022 at 02:33
islander wrote:
Hooker's feet outside the field of play at throw-ins - surely not even in the top 100 problems relating to rugby union and the laws of the game? |
Pedant, moi?
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2022 at 17:39
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64069729" rel="nofollow - 'Shot clock' will be introduced in January to speed up game
A countdown timer on scrums and kicks at goal will be introduced in January to help speed up the game, says World Rugby.
The 'shot clock' means players will have 90 seconds to take a conversion and a minute for penalties, or the kick will be disallowed.
New rules also state scrums have to be started within 30 seconds and line-outs formed without delay, with penalty kicks to be given for timewasting.
The rules come into place on 1 January.
A clock for kicks at goal is already in operation in France's Top 14.
World Rugby's director of rugby, Phil Davies, said: "World Rugby, member unions and competitions will work with broadcasters and match hosts to implement on-screen (stadia and broadcast) shot clocks for penalties and conversions to ensure referees, players and fans can view the countdown, mirroring what happens in the LNR (French national league) and sevens."
World Rugby hopes the changes will improve the flow of the game and reduce the reliance on Television Match Official reviews, which add to stoppages in the action.
Water carriers will also only be permitted to enter the field of play when a try is scored.
"Only in a game with no tries, should a natural stoppage be used," added Davies. |
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Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2022 at 18:32
This appears to be a rather alarming outbreak of common sense - surely somebody should do something about this?
------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick.
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2022 at 18:51
oneagainstthehead wrote:
This appears to be a rather alarming outbreak of common sense - surely somebody should do something about this? |
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2022 at 19:12
What actually reading the law book and possibly applying it. I love the comment on rugbyrefs - do this mean everything else is optional.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: dumbape
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2022 at 20:31
Is it too much to ask for a straight put in too?
------------- What a blessing it would be if we could open and shut our ears as easily as we open and shut our eyes!
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Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 09:27
Will this shot clock be applied at all levels. When I was playing (long ago) we were all rather glad of a decent break.
------------- The older I get, the better I was.
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Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 09:58
Some practical problems. - At what level will clubs be required to provide Shot Clocks?
- Who will administer them? - or will the referee be provided with a smart watch linked to the clock?
- At what point does a referee start the clock for scrums or Line outs and penalties.
- If a ball is kicked into touch and is not available to throw in will the clock start when the Hooker has the ball in his hand.
I am sure there will be other examples but I i agree the game needs to be speeded up but if the referees used the powers they already have then there would be no need. Simply penalise the first team that has a huddle and walks to a line out would dramatically have an effect on the game. The same applies to the put into the scrum , penalise the first not straight for both teams at their first scrum and the S/H would know not to do it again. I do feel that the caterpillar rucks need to be addressed: 1. require the rear of a ruck to be two persons. 2. Call the ball out when there is only one foot behind it 3. Call out when the S/H touches the ball with his hands not when he picks it up . Usually the SH puts his hands on the ball then looks where his players and the opposition are before picking it up and the 5 second rule is rarely enforced. There is also an issue with players diving through a ruck and taking players out , enforcing the existing Law of the back foot and sealing off would stop this. Let us hope that common sense will ensure that existing laws are applied without the need for more administrative requirements on the clubs.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 12:13
I don't see there'll be a requirement for an actual, physical shot clock at all levels, even if the top tiers get such a thing (they have them in France in the corner of grounds at top 2 levels, sponsored by Tissot). At lower levels I imagine it'll be more a question of the ref advising kicker when the time is ticking, and suitable warnings 10 or 15 secs out.
Can't really see any good reason why you should get 30 seconds longer for a con than a pen... but definitely step in right direction I feel.
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 13:23
If they really are serious about speeding up the game get rid of the TMO, all I hear on the ref mic these days is "time off" so they can have a discussion. Get the ref to earn their crust like they used to and it'll shave at least half an hour off the match time.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 14:04
tigerburnie wrote:
If they really are serious about speeding up the game get rid of the TMO, all I hear on the ref mic these days is "time off" so they can have a discussion. Get the ref to earn their crust like they used to and it'll shave at least half an hour off the match time. |
Absochuffinlutely.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 14:33
tigerburnie wrote:
If they really are serious about speeding up the game get rid of the TMO, all I hear on the ref mic these days is "time off" so they can have a discussion. Get the ref to earn their crust like they used to and it'll shave at least half an hour off the match time. |
I realise many people believe being the Ref is the easiest job on the pitch and they get everything wrong all the time apart from when the decisions go our way, in which case the ref is brilliant. My main worry is that as the laws become more complex and there are an ever increasing number of ways to "speed the game up" being a referee will become an increasingly impossible job. Social media makes it worse, where everyone believes they could do a better job. I think everyone who criticises a referee publicly, should do a ref course and then ref an under 15's game.
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 16:09
Agreed Jimbo! For most home matches I get to hear the ref Mike and 90% of the time the decisions are given clearly and explained so that the players understand. That doesn’t stop partisan supporters with no ref Mike feed criticising the decisions, after all, they know better and can see more clearly from 40 metres away!
I don’t go to matches with TMOs so can’t comment on them but I can question whether the ARs are giving the referee the support he needs. Twice this season we have cited an opposition player - and that player has been banned - for incidents less than 5m from the AR and neither was given by them. A Nat 1 captain I spoke to said they were a waste of space and we could do as well with the old style Club TJ. When was the last time you saw an AR hold his flag out for foul play?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2022 at 16:46
As the ARs are miked, they should not need to hold out a flag - and they have given decisions in the games I have watched.
I would call for bigger secondary signals from all referees. The crowd, those without ref mike, do rely on them to understand what has been given.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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