https://twitter.com/rreesrugby/status/1632314402949963776?s=46&t=iFaFN_EdYt6o_fifBlDWcA" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/rreesrugby/status/1632314402949963776?s=46&t=iFaFN_EdYt6o_fifBlDWcA

Ealing get something for all their investment in recent years and Wales RU offload the cost of supporting a fourth region.

What else? How does the wider game benefit?

I agree and I for one have fond memories of playing in Anglo-Welsh fixtures and would welcome their return. Will anything come from the new proposals, rumours of two ten team leagues, fully funded, if it happens it might solve a lot of problems.

I don't know what the Ealing set up is but if it was a members club who voted against the plans, then what would it mean financially? Would the Trail finders money stop and Ealing would have to look elsewhere for income to play at Championship level?

This deal I guess is to bring top level rugby to Ealing to justify the Trail finders investment over the years. Other than that it makes no sense. 

No club should have to have an alternative ground in place. They should be allowed to have their own plans for development at their current ground taking into account crowds and cost. 

If they want to have a big game at a big ground aka Quins etc then that would accommodate a large travelling crowd. 

Yes, but someone has said the locals and the council are against the ground being extended, now this must have been known about before, so why the wailing and gnashing of teeth, if the business is not built on solid foundations to succeed is that asking for trouble? Clubs have moved to better facilities in many sports, if rugby is to grow and clubs are to grow, then they need space to grow and it sounds like Ealing do not have the infrastructure/space to do so. Would it be safe for a crowd of potentially 15 or 20k fans to pass though a residential road? I don't know as I have not been to this ground.

I want promotion and relegation, I want clubs having the chance, my old club might get such a chance this year if we can keep the performances going, but we cannot end up bankrupt doing it. A five year plan was put in place to include facilities, the old wooden club house was replaced with a more suitable modern building, which is actually bringing in income to try and be sustainable. I don't like what the RFU and PRL are doing, they have always done it, going back to the amateur days when clubs like Worcester and Exeter would kept firmly in their place, the old school ties made sure no upstarts could join the elite, it has to change. However just saying there is only one criteria is over simplifying it, but the people running the show have to step in and help clubs like Ealing, Jersey, Donnie, Coventry, any of these clubs. I'm hoping the 2 leagues of 10 teams will give the help and funding to get clubs on a more equal footing and not on a basis of if your face fits.

It initially sounded like the other way round, but Mike Gooley has recently created a new legal entity called London Trailfinders Rugby Limited, so it would sound like the process of losing the Ealing identity has started.

I’ve asked this question before and been shot down, but are we certain Mike Gooley is passionate about having an Ealing team playing top flight rugby, or he is passionate about a Trailfinders team? Because this series of events appears to indicate the latter.

Ealing really need to carefully consider their next move here. I think it’s ludicrous they’re being denied promotion, but if they go down this route I’m not sure what the long term plan is. There is no going back as if Ealing ever wanted to rejoin the RFU they would need to start from the bottom and even if they do initially play their games in Ealing, you’ve got to think this would be temporary and that eventually they would relocate back to Wales. If they’ve got the money, I would be focusing this and their efforts on a legal challenge with the RFU/PRL cartel.

London Trailfinders Ltd  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14588183" rel="nofollow - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14588183

Ben Ward is director of the non rugby one and was a director of the rugby one briefly (1 week).

Having been there many times when Park and Ealing were in the same league the latter have moved on and upwards. They have built an academy with some real outreach and without the backing of the RFU as they don’t get the Premiership academy status.

There seem to be a lot of strange views on here about why they don’t simply groundshare or why didn’t they nail the planning. Planning in London is a minefield and I doubt they’d have even got close to an initial decisio within the RFU’s deadlines. Groundshares yield very little cash to the clubs that go down that route.

They may not have hoards of fans compared to the existing Premiership clubs but they won their league last year and might well win it again this year. The Premier League changed its rules on grounds to accommodate smaller clubs that had won promotion. The French don’t make up barriers to teams trying to break into their second tier or who win promotion into the Top 14.

Whether it’s Ealing or Jersey that win I hope they take on the cartel. 

If they move into the URC and play games out of the current ground and attract increased crowds they would have to develop VW to deal with them. However the club does not seem to be working on this element. I can understand not wanting to meet the absurd Premiership ground conditions and timings but do they have plans to do something halfway?

Is there an intention to take games back to Swansea X times a season and make use of that larger ground for bigger games?

I suppose it will all come out in the wash but the drop feeding of news and plans must be disconcerting to the Ealing  (and Ospreys) supporters. 

Great digging Blues. It seems there’s no smoke without fire. 

I still feel pretty uncomfortable but with very little in the way of facts it’s hard to be certain of anything, we will just have to wait. Not sure it’s really a good deal for Ospreys or Ealing supporters tbh. 

I would be surprised if Ealing dropped their RFU Championship place entirely though. Given they have made a big thing of the pathways they have setup, from Henley College to the Brunel Academy in BUCS, I can see having a team in the championship and one in URC as an extension of the pathway. 

Doesn’t mean I like it but it kinda has some sense to it. Just wish they’d get on and tell people what their intentions are. 

Notwithstanding issues with the RFU (or indeed WRU) this is starting to feel, yet again, like rich men with expensive toys doing what they want. 

We've already got the debacle of Worcester/Wasps/Stoubridge/Worcester RFC (to say nothing of potentially Mose and Cov) being affected by an attempt to move chess pieces around in the West Midlands, so I suppose we just have to suck up an Ealing/Ospreys/Neath/Swansea/whoever else outbreak elsewhere.

Though I must admit I struggle to see many people in Ospreys land being on-board with any attempt to move their team/games to London. 'Saved' by the English...

God forbid we go back to the dark days of closed fixture lists, but if you're a rich man wanting to take a club on a journey, how about thinking more carefully about which club (and indeed ground) you buy?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11823737/Welsh-Rugby-Ospreys-considering-merger-English-Championship-Ealing.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11823737/Welsh-Rugby-Ospreys-considering-merger-English-Championship-Ealing.html

But that would mean clicking on a link to the Heil.

No thankyew.

I'll get my hands dirty so that others don't have to then. Mail article quite light on sources/quotes, even unnamed ones, but the author was pretty tuned in to the Welsh players strike threat last month and that story came to pass, so let's see...

Sorry! I’ve just soaked my hands in bleach to get the stench off 😂

What if Mike Gooley buys the Osprey's URC slot (and re-names them London Trailfinders), but KEEPS Ealing in the Championship? There's no rule that says that one person can't own a team in each league. Especially considering that Ealing in the Championship could never be in a competition with London Trailfinders. Reasons why this would make sense:

1. Vallis Way - we know that the ground can accommodate two professional teams because it hosted Ealing and London Broncos for years, including one year in Super League.

2. Squad size -  Ealing currently is scheduling ad-hoc A team games during the season to get players game time. If London Trailfinders would use Ealing Trailfinders as their 'A' squad, then everyone could get game time. The quality would still be good enough for Ealing to get mid-table I imagine. This is similar to proposals that the RFU itself has made!

3. Clarity - We have no idea what is happening in the RFU. However, if Ealing stays in the Championship, then they can participate in whatever leagues come to be in the future. In the meantime, London Trailfinders build out the ground at the pace that Mr. Gooley proposed (5000/9000/10000).

4. Legal battle - Why give in to the RFU? If you keep Ealing in the Championship, then you can hammer away at the RFU without worrying about timescales for the legal cases.

5. No RFU involvement - The RFU can't block anything if Ealing stay in the Championship. What control do they have over Mr. Gooley buying a franchise from another league? Are they going to claim that Sir Mike Gooley isn't as fit and proper as the scammers in Worcester?

Probably just a crazy notion and based on absolutely no insight, but it makes a frightening amount of sense.

And in more developments, as of today, London Trailfinders Limited has changed its name to IHBSAO Limited, and continues to have Ben Ward as a director, but Mike Gooley no longer has control of that company.

London Trailfinders Rugby Limited (previously called Conflict Ltd.) has changed its name to London Trailfinders Limited as of today. Sir Mike Gooley continues to be the controller, and is a director.

(all from Companies House)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/03/06/ealing-move-may-trigger-merger-ospreys-future-urc/" rel="nofollow - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/03/06/ealing-move-may-trigger-merger-ospreys-future-urc/

Probably got it all from here 

The bit they have control over, AIUI, is *all* professional rugby (and indeed competitive rugby) played within the territorial borders of the RFU's area.

So if Mr Gooley bought Ospreys and Ospreys were playing in Wales there'd be no problem. But if he bought Ospreys and they tried to play even a one-off match in England then his fight would be not just with the RFU, but with World Rugby, whose rule it is, and every other national union in the world looking to protect their privileges. 

I mean, I know he's got money and he doesn't like the RFU, but that would be, er, brave.

AIUI/IIRC

Given that those involved in Ealing are not complete idiots, they know that, but obviously think that this is a useful bargaining position in their attempt to achieve top level professional rugby.

He could take over a Welsh region whilst reducing investment in Ealing to make it rely more on its Academy products. After-all what's the point in pumping money into a club that can go no further than the Champ.

It doesn't make much sense but then again I can't see any sense in pumping endless money into a club that has hit its ceiling.

That makes the most sense tbh - all the talk of how it affects Ealing would really be a distraction to a story of 'man frustrated by RFU in England buys Welsh region to continue it playing in Wales.' 

I agree. 

He's an astute business man and must have done his risk and financial calculations and decided that this* option makes sense on both accounts. 

He could challenge the PRL/RFU criteria in court - and probably stands a good chance of winning - but that is a long drawn out expensive process with takes money away from rugby, where as this* deal is probably cheaper and has more immediate results and keeps the money within rugby.

*the trouble is no one knows what this deal is. All suggestions is that it is a takeover of Ospreys to move them to London, but what does that mean for Ealing?

I can see the attraction of some URC games played in London - especially if you tap into the South African and Irish communities in London for the visits of the SA teams and Irish provinces, but whether it will be allowed is the mute point. 

Yes one of those... 

Currently Knights have two players on short term loans from Glasgow due to our injury list, so it can happen

It's all a total can of worms mate. The shockers at the RFU should wake up and do the right thing for a change. Promote Ealing on playing merit and entirely scrap the daft ground requirements which if I understand it correctly aren't even followed by all of the existing premiership clubs and are likely to lead to more bankruptcies. Promotion and relegation should exclusively be based on playing merit.

I think you can do that - the downside is that the only benefit to the players is as a shop window. Essentially, if you're good enough to be playing URC and you're at Ealing and English, then by doing so you're making yourself ineligible to play for England until you move to a top flight English club. It would be basically akin to removing yourself from contention within England by moving to France.  

Technically it shouldn't actually set an English player back too much, but in practice...

We can all see that, but the RFU are unlikely to "do the right thing" as they've been doing the wrong thing for decades. At the very least the Ealing thing will shake things up a bit. The ground criteria is a sham, we all know that.

I actually think it's a sham two ways - firstly in the way that it is applied, and secondly in terms of what they are. I've got no issue whatsoever with ground criteria existing, I just struggle to see why the apex should be at least 10000 seats or whatever it is this week.

One of the few things IMO football has got right is that there is a progressive set of minimum standards as you work up the divisions from park pitch - don't meet them, you don't go up. Rugby on the other hand is still operating a wild west below the Premiership, where allegedly there are minimum standards, but either they're so minimum as to be invisible to the naked eye or they're not enforced. 

Personally I don't think a team should be in national 2 or above (never mind the prem) without floodlights, for example. 

Minimum standards should be an escalator where you build with each division such that no one's ground should be that far off the pace for the division above.

It has been utterly mismanaged (like most things since probably 1895), but the answer shouldn't be  completely free gangway based on performances on the pitch either. 
 

The irony being that when those ground rules were brought in, only 3 Premiership clubs met the criteria (grandfather clauses were wonderful they all thought). Indeed, Bath still don't meet it so if they got relegated, by rights they would not be permitted promotion.

Kicking off at 3:00 in midwinter with poor floodlights is a much worse experience, in my opinion, compared to kicking off at 2:00 without.

The earlier kick-off generally ensures sufficient light and is warmer. Trying to watch a game you cannot see in the cold and dark is no fun.

No its not. 

Stadium's with over 10k capacity have to have a Safety certificate as per 1975 Sports ground act (or the later legislation) but there is no reason why the RFU and Premiership have to insist on a 10k capacity stadium to play in the Premiership.

This is how the cartel could drop the capacity down to 5k when pushed with the aim to develop upwards later.

The RFU/PRL criteria is simply a blocker to admission to the Premiership. 

Did Simon actually say anything in that podcast.

Except that nothing is going to be done to help the Championship before 24/25.

He did not quite say that the uppity Championship and National 1 clubs need to know their place.

But he did say that the Premiership clubs have put a lot into the game and need to be looked after.

Which sort of implies that we need to learn to live off the crumbs from their table. 

don't you remember? They've made rugby union a spectator sport. 

No one at all watched it before. 14000 definitely didn't attend Moseley vs the International Rugby Writers XV. The North aren't a side, let alone one that filled a ground against touring test sides. The clubs at the top table have been there since time immemorial. Waterloo, Orrell and West Hartlepool never existed. Moseley v Coventry with 17 England internationals on the pitch? Fantasy.

1995 was year zero.

Anything before that is a false memory.

Most of the DCMS issues are around football grounds and the segregation of away fans and access routes to avoid them being waylaid on the street.

They do not mention / apply them to rugby grounds. 

The fact that some clubs grounds have passed DCMS regulations is normally only due to the fact that they had to for the football teams sharing the ground.

Came to post exactly that.  URC doesn't need this magic capacity for grounds in Scotland or Wales.  Super League doesn't need it (clearly as Vallis Way has hosted that), county cricket grounds don't need a 10k capacity.

Prl's latest wheeze to try and blame the government is canny as a lot of people believe it and it is a believable thing, government regulations rarely interact with sanity.  But I think the more it gets easily debunked like this the more damage it does as it begs the question, if that claim is false what else is too?

Saracens provided at least seven years of korruption and PRL provided a masterclass on how to turn a blind eye to korruption.

We really must look after them.

Makes you proud doesn't it? 

The club has a number of season ticket holders, members etc apart of the pro squad, with a massive amateur club , academy & womens section

Do any of these have an interest in the Pro Squad ??
As it doesn't seem to translate into spectators for Pro Games at Vallis Way and even less at away games

Welsh rugby crisis: WRU signs six-year deal with its four professional teams https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65144398" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65144398