Will England never learn or are they just arrogant
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Topic: Will England never learn or are they just arrogant
Posted By: marigold
Subject: Will England never learn or are they just arrogant
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 09:58
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So last season Eddie Jones winds up the French during the week before the opening 6 Nations and the French make us look stupid and beat us thus stopping a Grand Slam. Fast forward 12 months and the week before we play Scotland Jamie George comes out and says 'We want to take teams apart'. Scotland are a fast improving team especially in the scrum. England are without their top 3 scrummagging props; Sinkler Vinupola and Marler. Genge is a hothead - I predict at least 3 scrum pens- and Obano untested at this level. Why on earth make this public statement? What would be wrong with winning well and being humble in victory? |
Replies:
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 10:04
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Marigold . . . 100% agree . . . do you're talking on the pitch!!!! ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 13:31
| Trying to wind up South Scotfrica isn't a good idea. |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 14:41
| England like their head coach simply have no class. |
Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 16:11
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It's all simply paper talk designed to whip up interest in the fans. It makes no difference at all to players at that level - it just doesn't work like that. Almost all the players know each other anyway. If a player isn't completely, utterly 100% motivated to give it everything in a game of that importance then he would never have reached that level anyway. |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 16:22
Where the Welsh just exude class throughout !  ------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
WEvans wrote:Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 18:30
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1- no 2- yes ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 10:26
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Trash talk is the fashion now. Look at the way boxers abuse each other. And politicians, and cricketers and footballers and their managers. So Eddie is just another mannerless copycat. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:21
What's Eddie said by way of trash this week? There may have been something ill-advised from Jamie George a week or so back, but otherwise I've not heard/read much...
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:43
Where does Wales come into it? Certainly not from me as I'm English. Do tell.
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:46
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/02/25/eddie-joness-11-most-incendiary-quotes/jonathan-sexton-kicking-the-ball/" rel="nofollow - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/02/25/eddie-joness-11-most-incendiary-quotes/jonathan-sexton-kicking-the-ball/ ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 13:01
Not exactly hot off the press ... ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 14:05
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We'll see how things go on Sat- how long is it since Farrell played?
Tactics adopted by Eddie are critical - bit more ball in hand?
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 14:50
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I'll be amazed if its anything other than dirge as usual - ie re-set scrums, endless box kick bingo, ping pong long kicks until someone makes a mistake and back slapping all round at every turnover, scrum pen, big hit etc etc
International rugby just doesn't excite any more. That said I'll probably still watch (in hope that it's not all of the above rather than expectation)
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 14:53
Good point. A real test of the 'intense' training environment that's been spoken about. Saturday at 4.45 will be two months to the day, almost to the minute, that Farrell, as well as George, Itoje and Daley, finished the ANC final v France - their most recent game. Billy V had a run-out v Ealing a couple of weeks ago...
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Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 19:37
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What has Eddie Jones ( he is not Welsh ) got be arrogant about ? . The record-unbeaten run lasted 18 games, 17 under his tenure. It was the joint-longest by a Tier One side in Test history. Of his 54 Tests, England have won 42, with one draw, putting Eddie at the top of a very elite list. ... Tests.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 19:41
Just as well he is winning games could you imagine the criticism if he was losing games.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 12:36
| Genge was a hot head, he is now one hell of a loosehead who is a great player in the loose. |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 14:54
Real champions win without arrogance.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 15:17
 ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 08:34
We have had England teams and head coaches who have specialised in being being magnanimous in defeat. Eddie Jones comments can be ridiculous but they are mixed in with an over confidence and belief in the squad and their ability to win games. There are arrogant ( and lacking class ) people in all international squads and there have been some stand out examples. Often the comments of a few people, and it is the controversial comments that get printed are interpreted as the attitude of the entire squad and support staff. Most international squads are told , warned to stay off social media and told exactly what say if confronted by the press. Obviously the newspaper reporters are searching for something that is different from the spew of rehea rsed replies. My all time winner would be another Aussie David Campese. ------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 18:36
| Now you have an answer- well played Sco v poor England. |
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 18:41
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Agree, well deserved, too much kicking again, no flair.
------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: Rucking Idiot
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 18:45
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Based on that performance there will be only one English Lion - The song "One wheel on my wagon" comes to mind; Well played Scotland  ------------- If it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck it's just my rucking luck! |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 18:55
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England dire Scotland on fire as much as it pains me to say this - well done Scotland. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 20:22
| Agreed Scotland played out of their skins but when you're not winning any ball why oh why do we hoof it up in the air or option 2 fire it down the throat of the best running full back in the world. Anyway I'm sure Eddie's right these tactics will lead to world domination pretty soon |
Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 20:24
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Yes Eddie clearly struggles with the top international teams and has only achieved a 50% success rate against the All Blacks, South Africa and Scotland. ------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!! Seven down one to go |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 21:04
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15 penalties and 27 missed tackles and kicking away the ball far far too often.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 22:07
England were rubbish by their own standards. Well played Scotland but lets keep this real. The Scots had all the ball, they were on the right side of a big penalty count, half the regular England side were missing and, Scotland could still only win by less than a converted try. Do they need it on a plate? A five point win against that team performance does not suggest to me that Scotland are "on fire". I am only glad that England were not playing France or Ireland as they would have lost by 25 points. Warren Gatland was in the Stand. IMO, on that performance, the only player 'inked in' for the Lions would be Itoje.
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 10:01
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Careful analysis of the England structure and the way players have/ have not performed during the pandemic is needed.
There is no doubt that you need to play regularly at a high level to be ready to perform at the next level. Too many of Englands players were obviously rusty whereas Scotlands squad were focussed and match fit.. If your tactic is to kick the nas a team you need to press as a unit. Likewise if you target the opposing scrum half then you need players going forward to feed off the mistakes. Had Itoje had a player to offload to when he charged down the first of Prices kicks it could have been a different story. I'm not sure who coaches Eng defensively but the failure to secure Shaun E seems even more stupid to me. Eddie is overly protective of Owen F and Billy V in particular. He could have tried something different as France did last season. Our failure to identify and fast track new international class scrum halves is a black mark against the coaching team. Youngs wasnt great and I dont think Robsonnhas it at this level. The line out was poor - I know conditions weren't great but Scotland managed. We knew Scotland had improved in the tight - did we not practice scrummaging and why are we allowing international squad members to dictate when they play? England performed badly and the coach needs to take responsibility. OK so it was 11-6 but did England really look like scoring a try wheres Scotland could easily have scored on at leastv3 other occasions. I really think that Eddie has been given an extension too many but time will tell. The majority of the reporters in The Times yesterday had England as 6N winners.Im guessing they are feeling a bit stupid this am?
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Posted By: Thames Estuary Man
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 11:52
| England can still win the 6N. Easier match against Italy next to regroup then they will need three more good wins. |
Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 11:54
| After that performance only Itoje seems good enough to be a Lion? |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 13:16
agree - still winnable. In round 1 last year England snatched a BP at the death v France and that ended up enabling us to take the title in round 5. Yesterday's BP was even less-deserved after an abject display, but it may still count...
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Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 13:22
Anthony Watson and Jonny May are world class finishers and you simply cannot judge them on a game when they hardly receive a pass at all - never mind one in a good attacking position.
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Posted By: Welshie7
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 13:33
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Wow.....just wow! A game lost against a Scotland team that rode its luck a little, during a pandemic and therefore restrictions on training etc, and you guys want the most successful England coach (% wins) sacked! Incredible.....are you same people who wanted him sacked after game 1 of the 2020 6N? How did the table end up?
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Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 13:43
------------- Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD. |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 14:32
I agree. H Also, how you can take Watson off and leave Daly on is beyond me. And poor Lawrence in the centre. I hardly heard his name and then they took him off. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 14:33
Even without crowds, games against Wales and Ireland away will be tough and then France at home. Fingers crossed, we can only get better one hopes. ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 15:46
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A little humour found on social media Police in London have launched a major investigation after 15 young and inexperienced men were subject to a terrifying ordeal whilst out for a gentle kick about in the park. One shocked victim said 'It started in the 1st minute when they took the ball from us and wouldn't give us it back." Police said the culprits were all Scottish, dressed in blue and showed no regard to the emotional impact on their victims who were subjected to 80 minutes of physical and mental abuse. Witnesses are requested to phone Crimestoppers anonymously at the earliest opportunity. |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 16:21
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Great intervention Mike.
Not sure everyone calling for EJ to be sacked merely questioning his selection/ coaching which is fair enough. Donr forget this thread resulted from players gobbling off before the match ..
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 16:23
you sound surprised Welshie, but people losing their $h1t and over-reacting on social media/forums has been one of the hallmarks of the past 11 months... would also add that england have now played dreadfully 2 games running, even if the first one ended with a trophy...
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 17:28
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I think the frustration comes from the fact that the coaching team, most recently the ATTACKING coach Simon Amor, believe that kicking behind defences is the way to win matches and achieve world dominance. Trouble is, even if that were true, we're simply not very good at it yet continue to persist when clearly not working. Compare England's kicking yesterday to that of Russell and Hogg - no contest. Also if the team ethos was to kick in behind then surely it should also be in that ethos to chase the bl***y thing.
For me Farrell, Youngs, Vunipola, (even Ford who at least looks a bit more adventurous than Farrell yet still has a first instinct to kick) are well beyond their sell by dates. There are so many young talented creative players in the Prem. Let's bite the bullet and blood these players now rather than sticking to a method of play that is dull, boring, ineffective and 10 years out of date. First to do on the job list - pick a creative fly half and a footballing 8!
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 18:12
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But to do that you need a head coach willing to do it. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 18:30
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I agree that Russell and Hogg's tactical kicking was better on the day but share the wider concerns expressed. Having watched a different game this afternoon with Ireland fielding a 35 year old stand off I think the problem is deeper rooted than people think. Both Ireland and Wales looked rather better coached than England - ok the weather was better and the execution wasn't always perfect but both sides tried to play. I'm not sure which of the new generation of English stand offs could improve things. Simmons is the more consistent player but is familiar playing with a well drilled side whereas Smith and Umaga need a bit more time IMHO. The fact that Ireland are playing Billy B and Wales Callum S suggests that there arent that many great stand offs about. Farrell had a poor game ( in ALL respects) but is he not a similar age to Russell and a much more reliable goal kicker? A few interesting 6N games to come which hopefully will result in more informed comment on gthis forum which is a cut above HYS elsewhere! |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 18:52
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A raft of injuries/not playing in the correct country in Wales and Ireland have contributed to the rapid rise of Burns and Sheedy. EJ does not want to play. The Times recently highlighted in an article about how the data he receives about teams winning etc leads him to believe the team who kicks the most wins the most games. Hoof the ball down the pitch, put pressure on the receiver, make them kick out under pressure so you get the lineout from where you catch and drive, draw a penalty, kick the penalty or kick to the corner and use the pack to force your way over. If no progress made after 3 phases on the half way line, kick and chase. And repeat......... |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 08:33
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If those really are the instructions issued which obviously involve time spent in preparation then it could explain Englands poor performance.
What it does not explain is the lack of physical conditioning evident in the likes of Billy V ( a point made by Sir Clive) and the lack of awareness when fielding return kicks. Let us see what happens ne t - and more pertinently who is selected next!
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 11:45
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England looked off the boil and Scotland lively and enterprising. Hogg was brilliant. The much hyped Russel made a fair number of mistakes, but the rest of the Sots were excellent. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 13:13
Tricky - in one sense, why have the likes of Odugwu & Randall in wider squad if you aren't going to blood them at home v Italy? But equally the rusty brigade need more game-time. Pretty harsh to drop anyone numbered 11-23 from last Saturday's ENG squad, as the outside backs never got the ball, and the replacements were introduced at a mostly pretty late stage & had precious little opportunity...
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 14:22
So, again, where do the Welsh come into it (as in your initial post)?
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 15:35
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I made the comment, by message, to a friend that watching the Wales v Ireland game was a totally different experience to watching England v Scotland. Eddie Jones is obsessed with the power game, despite it having proved to be largely ineffective in all games since England beat N Zealand in the last World Cup. Whilst you need a pack that at least holds its own the current situation is not successful, or even good to watch. Ditch the kicking, England seemed to put a kick through after several phases as if this was plan A - again ineffective and used several times when there was a clear overlap. when they did kick there was no chance of retaining possession most of the time. Billy V at no 8 looked overweight and unfit - obviously only had 1 friendly game since last season. Is Farrell the best 10 in England - having watched the Premiership games, I would say no. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 18:35
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I thought Eddie Jones interviewed very well post match . He took full responsibility for the poor performance.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 22:14
I'd rather he did his job and selected a team capable of playing rugby and winning. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 22:37
Is Daly the best full-back in England? No. He isn't the best full-back in the team. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 10:05
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The best fly half I've seen lately is Marcus Smith of Harlequins. All coaches , no matter who, seem to get stuck in a mode where they don't look beyond there 'usuals'. Eddie is no exception. The box kicking farce is another story. It's almost"I've run out of ideas, I know, I'll hoof it upfield and hope the other team drops it.' So clueless. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 10:05
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"Their' not 'there'! ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 12:39
You give them too much credit - I don't think they are capable of thinking, they just follow the default of kicking after a couple of phases. It all seems to robotic to me as they lumber from one set piece to the next. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 15:35
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Farrell simply can’t manage a game that isn’t going his way from 10. As for captain..............so lacking in tactical knowledge and understanding
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 16:28
| Absolutely agree on both points Monkey Boy - give me a 10 with some creativity any day of the week - OK that comes with a few errors along the way but so what. Plenty other decent place kickers around too so time to dispense with him in my view. His kicking out of hand is just dire (along with several other ream members I could mention) - never finds any space (or 'grass' in modern parlance) just hands back possession. If as Eddie claims games are won by the team who doesn't have the ball then I'm afraid the game needs to change |
Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 19:10
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There are others much closer and knowledgeable than myself, but as I see it the 8 9 10 link needs a radical sort out. Youngs is too slow and predictable. Great at the back of the crocodile or whatever it is called, not got any quick thinking flair anymore. Marcus Smith is currently the best 10 by a mile. Billy Vunipola is 2 stone overweight and needs to play a few games, but not in an England shirt. Yes injuries kept some first choice players out but come on Eddie think outside the box (especially the box kicking) Incidentally, putting 40+ points on Italy doesn't count.
I'm not holding my breath though. ------------- Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011 |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 20:20
Glad I'm not the only one who thought BV was overweight. Anything less than 40 point win v Italy will be another disaster. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 09:06
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Agree with most of the comments and interesting that Dalys performances coming under greater scrutiny.
Personally I'm not sure about Smith but the Italy game should be used to experiment and the 8,9,10 axis should be the focal point with new starting 2 and 15 as well as a new captain.Let Itoje have a shot and see if he can ditch his puerile side and really step up. Competition for places is needed.
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 09:48
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True. No one should feel their place is safe. Complacency is fatal. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 10:39
| Wonder how many English Qualified 8s, 9s and 10s are available |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 11:08
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Newcastle have Sam Stuart, acknowledged as the best scrum half in the Championship before he joined them, yet they are starting matches with a South African. Not as good as he is in my opinion. Randall is good and qualified. Care at Harlequins is getting on a bit. Replaced on Saturday late on by an Argentinean. Too many non EQP players about. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 11:20
I think that is the problem, too many non English Qualified players.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 12:23
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You could say the same about Ben Spencer and Saracens - he only started 9 games a season for them and they tended to be the noddy cup. Probably wasted his best seasons. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 12:43
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You won’t solve the problem until you change the regulations. It is far too easy to bring in an overseas player therefore the young English guy gets no game time at senior level and tends to spend his time in the championship or Nat 1 before being released as not experienced enough limit the overseas players and there will be more home grown players pushing ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 13:02
With Sale having 8-10 Saffers in their squad another example. I agree, it is far too easy to get good quality foreign players (especially Saffers and South Sea Islanders) at below UK rates. I believe teams should be able to sign a limit of 4 non UK nationals Leaving more places for English qualified players - failure to do something of this nature will lead to the same sort of situation that the English football team is in ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 13:08
Although Spencer was behind another Englishman in Richard Wigglesworth, rather than being kept out of the side by a non-EQP.
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 13:38
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OK - we all accept - too many foreigners BUT in no particular order
Possible 8's - Dombrandt, Simmons, Tom Willis, Hughes (all of whom are streets ahead of Vunipola) and all offer something different More and more this game requires athletes not battering rams Possible 10's - Agree with others Marcus Smith is the next incumbent but when??? Another World Cup with Farrell and Ford hoofing possession away boring the pants off everyone is not the answer. Umaga a way to go yet but not too far behind with another season under his belt and what else does Simmons have to win before he gets a shot Possible 9's - Agreed this is probably where we have least options but I wouldn't look any further than Randall, absolute fire cracker doing everything at such refreshing speed Probably missed some other names that others may pick up
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 13:57
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For a nine to partner Smith, why not pick Danny Care. He is playing well and the two work well together. Not that I would want Quins tosuffer. Espacially if Dombrant got the 8 shirt. But I agree, we should reduce the number of overseas players in the premiership. That the RFU have too often brought in Rugby league or foreign players over the premiership's best isitself an endightment of the system. Whether we need to go back to only picking two non-English qualified players per side as per RFU regulations - or whether that needs to be slightly relaxed now EU and Kolpakplayers would be caught, i do nto know. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 15:37
He's probably not even the best full-back in his family. (To murder Jimmy Ormond's famous Ashes comment).
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Posted By: Thames Estuary Man
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 16:01
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Posted By: Thames Estuary Man
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 16:11
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England v Italy 1 Mako Vinipola 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie 3 Carl Sinckler 4 Maro Itoje 5 Jonny Hill 6 Courtney Laws 7 Tom Curry 8 Billy Vinipola 9 Ben Youngs 10 George Ford 11 Jonny May 12 Owen Farrell 13 Henry Slade 14 Anthony Watson 15 Elliot Daly Bench George, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, Earl, Willis, Robson, Malins.
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 16:11
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It appears then that we got just what we expected! Ford to 10, Farrell to 12 - when did that last work out well?? All it means is that if Ford doesn't kick it (assuming Young's hasn't already done so) Farrell will, if Farrell doesn't kick it Slade or Daly will. Anyone going to chase it this week? Some improvement in the pack but surely we have some forwards who might also be able to kick.
When will you all catch on? Team without the ball wins matches!
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 16:32
Harsh on Lawrence to not even make the bench. I don't believe he had the greatest of opportunities last Saturday with Farrell at fly-half. Billy V again?!? He needs to lose some timber and I am not sure that another Six Nations match is the best option for him.
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 16:52
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Unimaginative selection. What's the expression? Dead men's shoes. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Old Gold
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 17:59
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Dull selection. Excellent opportunity to blood Randall & Smith and start Malins & Odogwu. Billy V should be dropped for Dombrant or Simmonds or play Mark Wilson at 8. ------------- #AClubForLife💛❤️🖤 |
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 18:07
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EJ always said he would pick on club form, so not sure how the Sarries players make selection. Billy certainly not fit and should not be in the squad, Earl or Simmonds should be starting and or on the bench! Scrum halves, Spencer and Randall for me with Mitchell 3rd choice 10's Smith, if not now when!!! and Simmonds ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 20:20
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Very strange selection - 6 forwards and only 2 backs on the bench. There again, when you kick everything no point in having backs at all! ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 21:56
Don't you mean 8 "hybrid" players? ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 00:11
I believe you meant to say finishers.
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Posted By: Thames Estuary Man
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 01:02
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I’m surprised that EJ is going with Billy Vinipola again and Im not a big fan of Ben Youngs who seems to be undroppable and on his way to becoming England’s most capped player ! I think the team is loaded with quality players, but they need to mix up the tactics and stop being so predictable.
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 09:39
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'Finishers', 'impact players' - the modern fashion for having euphemisms for everything continues. Are their egos so sensitive that 'reserves' has become demeaning? Maybe they have 'issues'! I do hope England display some spark of invention. As observed above they have become stolid and predictable. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 11:23
For fear of repeating myself England have no Plan B. If the power game in the forwards doesn't work they are incapable of altering the way they play. We saw this in the World Cup final and in other games, It isn't new but England haven't worked on changing it; they would rather change the English language. If you invent new words or alternative meanings to existing words then you can deflect from any issues or criticism. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 11:31
| It won't prove anything when they take Italy apart. Hand on heart I hope they lose to shock the powers that be into realising we need change and we need it now - not after 2023 when the power and/or kicking game backfires on us again. That said RFU no money so can't afford to sack Eddie so I suggest we all get used to 2 or 3 more years of sterile rugby from England or better still don't watch it, go and paint the lounge! |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 11:48
Really? EJs whole game is based around BV who plays unless he is injured. The fact that he is overweight/ not match fit doesn't come into the equation. Without him EJ would have to change the whole game plan. When the authorities stated Saracens players would be selected even from the Championship, they obviously didn't know the Championship would not be playing. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 11:59
Yet ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 12:05
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The first Test Match I ever watched was SA vs NZ in 1960. NZ won 6-3, I recollect. You were then allowed to kick the ball into tocuh from anywhere and the line out was where it crossed the touchline. Very very dull. So they changed the laws and gave more points for tries and penalised touch kicks not from 25(or whatever it's now called in meters. Advance to 2021. Somehow the game has managed to regress to 1960, in spite of the rule changes. Something to do with Darwin's theories and the innate adaptability of our species. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 12:06
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touch! ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 15:12
I am fully aware that the Championship is due to start soon - not much good to those Saracens who haven't played since the Autumn and are clearly not match sharp and certainly not fit. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 23:37
I have to say it is really disappointing how short sighted Jones is- Italy should be the team we try new and exciting players for my limited knowledge I would of went with - 1 genge 2 Barbaray (injured I know) so Dunn ot Cowin Dickie 3 sinkler 4 Hill 5 Itoje 6 Earl 7 Willis 8 curry 9 Randall 10 Simpson 11 radwan 12 Lawrence 13 slade 14 day 15 mallins Give these lads a chance and welcome home then next world cup
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 23:39
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Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 11:30
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Hey like the selection Front 5 . . . a little bias with Radwan, although he did "skin" the out of form May. I presume you mean Simmonds at 10, I agree or Smith. But yes if not against Italy then when!! ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 11:36
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The vast majority of comments on this forum are made by well informed and knowledgeable rugby fans. I think all of them are quite entitled to question Eddie J's approach and I for one was not impressed with Eddie J's claim that the responsibility lies with him.
The fact is that the players let down the fans. There is no excuse for well rewarded professional sportsmen allowing themselves to get out of condition especially given the physical demands of the game today. I understand that a number of players were lacking match practice but that was directly associated with breaches of the rules as well the impact of C19. Had these players been left out then it would have emphasised the error of their ways. Eddie and his team need to look at their own conditioning. Eddie himself is a hugely experienced coach at this level and is paid a significant salary even after the pay cut. The potential for things going wrong was obvious to many before the game v Scotland and yet England were still.innit at half time. What did Eddie do at half time to sort things out? Not enough obviously! Finally why not start with Randall at SH? I have seen him a few times and he has certainly improved but may not be an international class player BUT against Italy he could have been a game changer. France must be quietly confident especially given the injury problems elsewhere. Certainly Les Bleus have strength in depth missing amongst other teams.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 13:14
totally agree BM - what's the point of picking Randall and Odogwu if you aren't going to blood them against Italy at home?
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 22:16
So Scotland are clearly not 'on fire', Wales still have to beat a team who have 15 players for 80 mins and England are just where they where at this stage of the last 6 nations, which they won. England must drop Daly & Farrell to progress further. Scotland have a reasonable team every 20-30 years but can't win at home against a struggling Wales. Where is the 'much lauded' Hogg in defence? Looks like Alan 'Winge' Jones is back in the running for Lions captain. I really hope not. Who today pushed themselves forward for Lions selection. Probably, Watson, May, Itoje again and the young wingers from Scotland & Wales. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2021 at 10:36
I agree Daly seems to have lost some of his pace, cannot tackle and isn't secure under the high ball. Farrell, moved back to centre, missed tackles, dropped too many passes and yet again came close to conceding a penalty for a no arms late tackle that would have disallowed a fine England try. At least England managed to play rugby, albeit against an Italy side who lose every game, which was an improvement on last week. As for Scotland, they took advantage of an inept England last week but the euphoric listing of 9 or 10 probables for the Lions was way over the top. Not surprised with this because every time Scotkand win a football/rugby match their team is suddenly lauded as world-beaters which they certainly are not. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2021 at 11:18
| What was evident to me yesterday was that if we ever do try to play an open loose game against half decent opposition then we do not have the right personnel in the team at the moment to play that way. Young's looked completely lost, Farrell virtually anonymous again apart from the bad bits and Daly could at least look half interested in making a tackle (although that's a seperate issue) Robson is half decent when allowed to play his Wasps role rather than ordered to box kick. No doubt they will revert to 'type' when they travel to Cardiff in two weeks time |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2021 at 15:42
Agreed - but what do people think about May's try? V impressive ( and 10/10 for artistic impression ) but was it legal? I've obviously missed something but I always thought that you couldn't jump into/out of a tackle. Also what would have happened had the defender stuck his arm up and propelled Johnny a*** over t**? I'm genuinely interested in the feedback .
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