Leagues for 2022/23
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Printed Date: 24 May 2025 at 23:46
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Topic: Leagues for 2022/23
Posted By: GazJo12
Subject: Leagues for 2022/23
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 10:37
| Sorry to bother everyone but I hope that someone might be able to help. Once the leagues for next season have been finalised would it be possible for someone to post them(say in Clubhouse Chat). so that everyone can follow exactly what has happened and where we stand for next season. |
Replies:
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 12:46
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Some things are being settled. Already promoted Midlands = Newport (Salop) and Sheffield Northern = Otley and Preston Grasshoppers South West = Exeter, Old Redcliffians, Hornets London = Sevenoaks. In contention Blackburn (3rd in North on 91) Dorking (2nd in London, 97) North Walsham (3rd in London, 94) Hertford (4th London, 91) It is looking like it will be Dorking and North Walsham - but the joy of sport is that upsets happen. So unofficially the "Northern" League looks like 1: Hull (unless promoted) 1: Rotherham (unless promoted) 2: Sedgley Park (unless promoted) 3: Fylde Rugby (unless promoted) 4: Hull Ionians 5: Tynedale 6: Sheffield Tigers 7: Wharfedale 8: Blaydon 9: Harrogate 10: Huddersfield 11: Otley 12: Preston Grasshoppers 13: Sheffield 14: Leeds or Chester If Leeds manages to stay up - either because they surge past Club, or because Ealing win their appeal, Chester could stay in the Northern league. Otherwise they will go to the South West. If Stourbridge or Blackburn were to be promoted, one of the Sheffield clubs would probably be moved into the South East. If Blackburn and Stourbridge are promoted, both Sheffield clubs could go to the South East. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Pr10r
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 13:27
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I wonder if there is an option to promote just 1 team (Otley) from North Premier. This has nothing against Preston, but this does allow Chester to be placed back in the North as they should be? Should the Ealing appeal be successful, Preston could be promoted? .... Chester will probably have to fight against level transfer in the future anyway ------------- In Victory, you deserve Champagne. In defeat, you need it |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 14:24
| Quick answer - NO there isn't an option. Published RFU criteria top 2 from each regional premier league plus however many are required to make up the numbers to 3 x 14. Also good luck explaining your proposal to Preston. Lots of clubs have "fought against level transfer" - to my knowledge absolutely NONE have succeeded! Nothing against Chester but they'll just have to take their medicine like all others who have "suffered" in the past |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 14:42
| That Bloke . Correct ! unless a club volunteers , you do as you are told, no matter what the consequences. |
Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 15:01
| My own thoughts are that level transfers tend to be spread around the same few clubs closest to the division boundaries every few years. To make it slightly fairer (admittedly may increase mileage overall) I would introduce a rule that any team being level transferred should be protected for at least 5 years from doing it again (unless they choose to do so themselves) |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 15:04
| I think there is a rule already in place Count Ford, similar to what you suggest but not sure of the exact details |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 15:15
There is such a rule. And it states any club that gets level transferred are protected from being forced to do so again for 2 years, unless they volunteer. Section 13.2.11.e.ii.f.
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Count Ford wrote:Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 15:20
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It is no longer called level transfer. There are no "home" division, the RFU simply draws the boundaries afresh each season. Of
course, it amounts to exactly the same thing at level 4, as there is
only one way to fit three leagues in to minimize distance. At levels 5 and 6, I am expecting the leagues to change substantially each season.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 18:14
Yes. My thoughts were extending it slightly to 5 years to stop the merry go round of the same clubs being up for level transfer every couple of years
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Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 18:43
I believe Acklam sort of won. They actually won the right to appeal against their transfer to Yorkshire due to errors in the process and communication. During the second process of contacting potential transferees another club volunteered to transfer. So it is possible that had it been allowed to play out to the appeal they may have lost and had to transfer in the end anyway
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 20:54
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Just the one change this week Already promoted Midlands = Newport (Salop) and Sheffield Northern = Otley and Preston Grasshoppers South West = Exeter, Old Redcliffians, Hornets London = Sevenoaks Dorking In contention for the final place: North Walsham (3rd in London, 99) Blackburn (3rd in North on 96) Hertford (4th London, 96) North Walsham have more wins than Blackburn or Hertford, so two bonus points could do, unless Hertford take five points at Sevenoaks. But we need to wait until St George's day. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 21:15
Not sure how you get a 3rd place team as being promoted - as I understand the final 2 (or possibly 3 ) promoted teams may possibly be on geographical conditions rather tha poinrpts accrued this season - or perhaps you have different information? ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 21:39
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I was assuming that the two best placed third place teams would go up to fill the leagues and that as the RFU seem happy for Chester to go South, they will take whoever. Actually, it would suit the RFU for the two Southern teams to go up, as it balances the three leagues better. The last thing they want is Blackburn going up - and both Chester and a Sheffield side heading South. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 21:54
Camquin, I totally agree with your assessment of the 2 best placed 3rd placed teams being promoted, however I recall reading somewhere in this four rum that the RFU have the final say on the final 2 promoted teams decided as they see fit. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 21:59
If the RFU consume four rum each, it would justify the unusual thinking at HQ. ------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused. |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 22:27
North Walsham, in the North of Norfolk, lots of travel expenses? I can't see the RFU approving that!
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 00:10
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There is a catch-all clause that lets them make any change if one team is being overly penalized. However,
the question is, is Chester's position so bad that it would be
sufficient reason not to promote Sheffield or Preston and instead
promote third place Syston - or a fourth place side. I
still am not quite sure who will be the South Western league. I
initially assumed Henley being an Oxfordshire side would go West, along
with probably Worthing. But it could be that two of the Leicestershire sides
are put in the 'South West' which would cut Chester's putative travel,
and let Henley and Worthing stay East, but one of the Leicestershire
sides would have to go East. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 08:22
I wouldn't believe everything (anything?) you read on this forum if I were you! There is no way the RFU will use anything other than playing records to decide who gets promoted.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 12:47
I will take your advice (with a large pinch of salt)  ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: BE57 REF
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 18:55
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With Leeds winning on Friday and Blackburn losing again today, it looks as though there may be no North relegation out of Nat 1 and no North/Midland best 3rd place promotion from L5, which may mean that both Chester and Sheffield could be reprieved and be in N2 North next season. Leeds (or Blackheath/Plymouth?) still have work to do for the N1 relegation slot to be confirmed - but is that it? Is there anything else to factor in? ------------- Just call me "Sir". |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 21:35
| Plymouth Albion cannot be caught. One of DMP, Leeds or Blackheath will go down. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 22:37
Not sure DMP can go down either, Blackheath can only equal DMP's 54 points but DMP have won 3 more games so would be above Blackheath if they were level on points. So it is down to Leeds or Blackheath with Leeds needing 4 points from 2 games - Taunton (a) and Cinderford (h) to be safe assuming Blackheath get 5 points from their remaining game at Cinderford. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 22:40
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Blackheath cannot catch DMP, they are five points behind with three fewer wins. Even if they get a bonus point win against Cinderford and DMP get no points, they would be ahead on games won. North Walsham clinched the second-best third place position. I think Chester might yet play in the "Northern" league - I am not sure what they are actually calling it. My best guess    ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 23:42
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I hadn't twigged we'd have 8 weeks off! What will I do if there's no rugby to watch? 😱 ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 06:44
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8 weeks off? I kind of get the reduction in league sizes, as it was claimed lower down the leagues teams were going through a lot of players, But sadly for clubs in National one and two it is 2 less home matches a season. Looking at attendance’s up to 1,000 less admissions a season. On the other hand, some clubs in National 2 might see more clubs being closer and increased gates for those matches. National 1 is going to be hit worse, and should have remained 16 teams. ------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused. |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 08:08
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'National 1 is going to be hit worse, and should have remained 16 teams.' Kempston 30 league matches at Nat 1 and 2 has been brutal for players, coaches, medics , and managers. The vast majority of d of r/ head coaches voted for a reduction. If there is a reduction in spectators/income clubs will have to pay the players less. No other country asks players at this level where the majority have full time jobs outside of rugby to play 30 league matches plus 2 or 3 pre season matches and train for 10 months of the year-and then wonder why players leave the game early.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 09:15
agree Marigold
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 09:50
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And the reduction to 14 team Leagues at National 1 and National 2 should result in better rugby from refreshed, fit teams as well as fewer mismatches. Fewer matches simply means maximising our income over fewer weeks. I don’t see our income dropping, hopefully we will get bigger gates at the 13 games and we will have 1 extra commercial letting week.
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Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 10:06
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Halliford. Does that mean for National 1 next season, that teams top of National 2 N & S are promoted, no play off between those in 2nd place. ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 10:53
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Yes, just one up from each Nat 2 league. No play-off. Hull have secured the Northern title. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 19:06
Not sure how no relegation and 3 promoted teams in each of N2SE and N2SW is likely to mean fewer mismatches? IMO it is likely to mean more. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2022 at 13:37
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So at present we have three promoted teams at the bottom of Nat 2S. Two of which should have been demoted. Next season three more teams from level 5 get promoted, so with the league being reduced to 14 teams that mean in reality there will be 6 teams who are going to struggle . 14 teams 8 of which are established at level 4 . Leaving 6 who historically struggle. The last full season of 16 teams only had 2/3 from level 5. So it's pretty obvious that mismatches are going to happen. Seems to me that this is designed to make it easier make the jump from level 4 to 5.
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2022 at 15:05
| It may do initially but I would expect standards to even out over time. I think I'm really looking up rather than down, though, as I review what I wrote! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2022 at 15:58
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There is a similar drop in quality at level 5, 6 and 7 - each of those leagues loses its three strongest teams and keeps the three that would be demoted and gains three or four from the leagues below and is shuffled into a new configuration. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2022 at 16:44
| Good point, Camquin. I remember when this was discussed in Surrey it was the ambitious Level 5-7 Clubs that wanted it because they saw quick promotion opportunities. There is a post on one of the Championship threads which talks about the gates you get, making the point that the better the opposition the better the gate, that will work against those Club, I expect. |
Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 14 May 2022 at 11:56
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I noted with interest some rare praise from Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times when he said that the RFU was doing a good job with what I call club rugby, but now seems to be called community rugby. I am not sure how that equates with a club with which I have some connection. Stockton rugby club is still celebrating its promotion from Durham Northumberland One to this new level 6. Well done to coaches and players. However it now appears that next season they will have cross country trips to Aspatria, Penrith and Keswick all requiring Bus hire of approx £1,000 a time (Diesel has gone up). At the same time their number of games has been reduced from 26 to 22 meaning two less home games to bring in much needed revenue. However, the RFU had got itself out of paying travel subsidy so no doubt that all at Twickenham think this master plan is wonderful. Grass roots need nurturing not cutting off. Mr Jones take note.
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 12:27
Stephen Jones is a total dinosaur totally out of touch with rugby today. He spends most of his time writing what Nigel Wray tells him.
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Posted By: Front Jumper
Date Posted: 30 May 2022 at 08:48
| Hi guys I was asked a question that I couldnt answer - with the restructuring of the mens leagues is the womens game undergoing the same sort of restructuring Does anyone know? |